Xander Mol's dashboard

Xander Mol replied on February 26, 2010 06:42 to the question "Choosing the best response to the new Terms and Conditions" in Sellaband:

Good question MartinN, and relevant as I just saw that at least Francis Rodino did NOT accept the new terms....

http://sellaband.proboards.com/index....

Xander Mol started following the question "Choosing the best response to the new Terms and Conditions" in Sellaband.

A comment on the problem "Sellaband bankrupt" in Sellaband:

In that case I almost hope they go bankrupt in two weeks to avoid the mess of not accepting nor confirming account deletion in two weeks. – Xander Mol, on February 25, 2010 21:33

A comment on the problem "New T&C completely unacceptable" in Sellaband:

No way. I will never accept these terms from a matter of principle already. – Xander Mol, on February 25, 2010 21:30

Xander Mol replied on February 25, 2010 21:14 to the problem "New T&C completely unacceptable" in Sellaband:

Also do not understand it from this perspective: oldSAB always stated they did not need to comply to gambling and investment rules just BECAUSE you could always retract your money.

So from this reasoning now you do have to comply to gambling and/or investing rules? In that case you are in a legal minefield as well.

Xander Mol replied on February 25, 2010 21:02 to the problem "New T&C completely unacceptable" in Sellaband:

Dagmar, sorry, for me this sounds like utter nonsense. Never heard of any banking regulation preventing a company to refund after two weeks.
And even when this is actually true (which I find very hard to believe) this is the nail on the coffin of your business model.
Do you really think that anyone would invest a sizable amount of money if they can't get out whenever SAB does stupid things? I won't at least.

So you'd better find a workaround for this issue, or newSAB is dead before restarted in my opinion.

Besides, this undermines the whole principle of trust. Now SAB just IS a pyramid scheme of which you can never get your money out.

And you did not reply to any of my actual question what the consequences of not accepting are.

A comment on the problem "Sellaband bankrupt" in Sellaband:

@Kirsten: I received that mail as well but did not confirm yet. Want those answers first. – Xander Mol, on February 25, 2010 20:23

A comment on the problem "Sellaband bankrupt" in Sellaband:

@Marc: The T&C also states that you have two weeks time to pull the money out after accepting the T&C. Problem is that to do that, you have to accept the T&C first, which I am not willing to do just now.

EDIT: OK, you already adjusted your post accordingly ;-) – Xander Mol, on February 25, 2010 20:14

A comment on the problem "Sellaband bankrupt" in Sellaband:

That's exactly why I did not accept the new T&C but also did not yet confirm making my account inactive. Want answers on the consequences first. Also send this request to info@sellaband.com – Xander Mol, on February 25, 2010 20:10

Xander Mol reported a problem in Sellaband on February 25, 2010 19:51:

New T&C completely unacceptable

I simply can not accept the new paragraph 4.5 of the new T&C, only getting your money back within two weeks after part purchase.

So I will not accept the new T&C.

What will happen now?

Will I get my money invested reimbursed?

Will I receive the limited editions CDs still up for sale?

Will I still receive sales proceeds from my portfolio of artists with an album out?

Appreciate answers on those questions.

Xander Mol replied on February 25, 2010 19:44 to the problem "Sellaband bankrupt" in Sellaband:

Do NOT, repeat NOT just accept the new T&C without reading it!

The new T&C are much worse for believers as you are NOT able to pull your money out ever again after two weeks after investing.

I did not accept the new terms and will see what happens.

Suggest you all do the same.

A comment on the problem "Sellaband bankrupt" in Sellaband:

10 people doing nothing still receive salary ;-) Besides, they were very busy with botching site updates over and over again. – Xander Mol, on February 25, 2010 08:41

A comment on the problem "Sellaband bankrupt" in Sellaband:

Actually 100k per month is not that much if you employ 10 FTE. An FTE on average costs 100k per year (salary, pensions, social security, taxes), so with 10 FTE the 100k is already gone on staff expenses. And I assume they had some costs to pay on rent, electricity, hosting etc as well.
I can remember posting on the SAB forum somewhere in Q4 last year that my estimate was that SAB was burning 1 to 1.5 million a year, seems my estimate was about right.

That they already went bankrupt means that indeed their initial spend was much higher than 100k per month, as the 5 million EUR investment should have given them 4 years before going bankrupt.
In that sense the bankruptcy was a surprise to me,. did not expect it so soon.

By the way: for me Pim Betist is as guilty of this mess as Johan V. He was just as responsible for some very bad choices in the early time of SAB as Johan, he bailed out when the going was getting tough and now is throwing dirt to his former partners while using this mess everywhere to promote his new upcoming failure. To me this is even worse than the obvious mistakes the rest of SAB management made. – Xander Mol, on February 25, 2010 08:27

Xander Mol made a comment on "Sellaband bankrupt", but it was removed. see the change log

A comment on the problem "Sellaband bankrupt" in Sellaband:

Gary, actually this aspect (the complete lack of communication skills of SAB HQ) was about the only point that most people agreed with Mandyleigh on at the forum.

The disagreement came from the other aspects of her posts, but will not go into that alley again. – Xander Mol, on February 25, 2010 08:22

Xander Mol replied on February 23, 2010 20:09 to the problem "Sellaband bankrupt" in Sellaband:

And SAB really thinks a restart will have any chance? Who will trust them with their money ever again?

I would advice any buyer not to buy honestly.

It would be like buying a bank just before the bankrun.

A comment on the problem "Sellaband bankrupt" in Sellaband:

She already did:
http://sellaband.proboards.com/index.... – Xander Mol, on February 23, 2010 15:52

Xander Mol replied on February 23, 2010 14:12 to the problem "Sellaband bankrupt" in Sellaband:

In the Dutch press the curator now says that Sellaband is bankrupt for now, but they are working hard on a relaunch. OK, still some hope apparently.

Let's see what happens.

http://www.nu.nl/internet/2191372/sel...

Xander Mol replied on February 23, 2010 14:08 to the problem "Sellaband bankrupt" in Sellaband:

@Marco: The company declared bankrupt in Amsterdam is Sellaband AG, so the German Aktien Gesellschaft (if it would have been a Dutch company it would have been NV or BV instead of AG).

I am no lawyer, but apparently the actual place of business takes preference over that it legally is a German company.

Regarding the CD's in stock: consider them lost. They are not in escrow. And everything in the SAB offices now falls under the bankruptcy. So those CDs will be used to repay the SAB debts (not that it will probably help much...). Probably in an auction?
Even with a relaunch all assets of the old company are part of the bankruptcy, the buyer/investor of the relaunched company is than owner of those CDs. Of course they can decide to still distribute the CDs to the believers, but that is a choice not a must.

The money in escrow is much more interesting as SAB always promised that money would also be safe in case of bankruptcy. Very curious how that will work out. Luckily the amounts I still had invested were limited.

On now recording artists: well, also that money is in escrow, so interesting topic. I guess they can still record, but they lost the channel to distribute.

Xander Mol replied on February 23, 2010 13:20 to the problem "Sellaband bankrupt" in Sellaband:

On the site http://insolventies.rechtspraak.nl it shows two rulings:
- suspension of payment on 19 February 2010;
- bankruptcy on 23 february 2010.

The creditors meeting is only referred to in the ruling on the suspension of payment, which is superseded by the ruling on bankruptcy only a few days later.

apparently the situation is so hopeless bankruptcy game only two working days after suspension of payment.

I guess we now have to mail to the 'curator' (no clue what the correct English word is, my dictionary says receivership) to ask if we get any money back.